posted September 12, 2001 08:20 PM            

There is some anger discussion as well. Vengence, hate, bewilderment, confusion... Anger.

There is even some discussion about the 'logistics' of how something like this could happen.

ALl these discussions refelct the common discussions we are having all over society.

We worry, and share, we provide support, and discuss "How could this happen?" as a real question, and discuss the real answers.

On the TV, (For sensationalism, i think) we see and hear, and hear descriptions of, the most horrible things.

but we here are not discussing these things.

It is inside of me, and I feel that holding it inside is somehow poisoning me. I want to type it out here. But I do not wish to offend, or seem heartless, or callous.

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People leapt from the buildings. Bodies were strewn about in the plaza. Some burnt beyond recognition, others decapitated, other mangled beyond belief.

One rescued Police Officer was on the 47th floor somehwere as the tower crumbled. He 'rode' it out, broke both legs, and then somehow survived in the rubble and fire to be recued last night.

Many firefighters and rescuers who entered the area after the towers dropped found shoes. Boots, Firefighters Boots... but no firefighters around.

The horror of being inside this building as it fell.

On Fox (The O'Reilly Factor) tonight, a man was interviewed who was on the 87th floor of the tower that was hit second. He said that when the first tower was hit, they looked on in horror, as people leapt from the upper floors. He thought about leaving, but was told to stay put. When the 2nd aircraft hit his tower, he ran across the floor to the stairs. As he passed the Freight elevator, he heard screaming, and heard cables rattling as the lift fell violently down... un-tethered.

I have heard several stories of people needing transplants, on their deathbed, a donor is found acorss the country, but the much needed organ cannot be flown... so the ill person dies, somehow, unneccesarily?

I worry about my mom, who could die any day, and how I would not be able to fly home to be with her, if I had long enough to know, or to attend her funeral, if she died. And I think of how many others across the country are home, unable to travel to their loved ones sides, in their time of need.

It is said that thousands of Law enforcment personnel will be assigned to security, to fly on aircraft, to be present at airports, to patrol... and I worry that the already stretched tight staffing will somehow then neglect the needs of the society in law enforcement. If FBI agents are flying on aircraft to protect against Hijacking, who will be investigating the lost, and missing, like Chandra Levy?

I think about all the personal belongings, now strewn across miles and miles of New York City, and New Jersey, that the dead will not miss, but that the survivors have 'lost' to the winds. If I found something, would I try to contact someone to give it back? Will most of it end up in a landfill?

Every ten minutes, the Sensasional Press on TV shows me one more horrible image, or interviews one more person, who describes one more horrible incident. And these things pile up in my mind, giving me nightmares, making me sick. I share in other places, with friends, in other online communites, but somehow this community is different for me. Somehow, more intellectual, more close. I feel a closeness to you that I do not share elsewhere. Perhaps ambiguity, or some sense of anonymity comes into play. But recently I have found that many things in my life are not truly validated until I post a recollection of it here, whether I get a response, or not.

I suppose that is a sign of love. When things in ones life only have more meaning if they are shared with someone whom one cares about.

You are my friends, my cousellors, my 'family', for lack of a better term.

posted September 12, 2001 09:11 PM            

Absorbing the tragedy is important. I mean... it won't help... but it's a vital human exercise. Try to feel the pain. It's out there, in the ether.

posted September 13, 2001 07:30 AM            

I've wondered about the possessions thing. I've heard mention of fully charged cell phones and working laptops lying in the street. I only know what *I* would do in that situtation: call the numbers in the phone book and tell the people on the other end where I had found the phone, and try to be as compassionate and informative as possible. But geez. With so many...

I'm *glad* that I have only seen the tape of people cartwheeling through the sky twice. The news channels, at least, seem to be pretty respectful (except for Larry King, but that's a rant for later).

posted September 13, 2001 08:55 AM            

I know it won't happen that way .. but the hope is there.

posted September 13, 2001 10:28 AM            

The winds shifted to a northerly direction over Manhattan yesterday. Smells a bit like burning rubber and God knows what else. Very unpleasant.

posted September 13, 2001 11:30 AM            

Rebuild the Towers. We'll need the office space, we'll need the TV-and-radio broadcasting antennae at the top, and dammit, I want my skyline back.

Maybe a plaque at the base of the new Twin Towers, yes. Maybe the entire ground floor as an indoor memorial, with the names of the victims on the walls.

But no way in hell should New York fail to rebuild what those bastards knocked down.

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About the possessions. I really, really hope they don't send things off to landfills, particularly not things that are in perfectly good shape but don't seem to have any practical value. Those are things most likely to have some kind of sentimental value.
We ought to stockpile the stuff somewhere, and in a month or two, set up the world's biggest ever Lost And Found location.

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-=> Toon

posted September 13, 2001 12:05 PM            

"Toon, it's okay -- just think of the config.sys file as bizarre post-modern poetry."
-Rob Wynne on #filkhaven

IP: Logged

posted September 13, 2001 02:03 PM            

Currently, The Towers in Malaysia (Sp?) are the tallest buildings int he world, but as the TV programs tell, there are at least 3 plans to build buildings around the world that will increase the 'tallest' when each is completed.

I beleive NYC, and the World Trade Center will be rebuilt, and I believe it will be spectacualr, whether it is a set of twins, a collection of buildings varrying in hieght, or a magnificent single structure reaching nearly a mile high.

Yes, this is tragic, and yes, there will be all new considerations in SkyScraper design, but this is also an oppertunity, not only for us to recover, but for the Buisiness of architecture, to make some new rise from the ashes that will once again become a symbol of the worlds most powerful capitalism.

There will almost certainly be a 'nod' to the victims of this terrible disaster, but the building, or buildings have to be built for a purpose other than simply a memorial to those lost. It has to be a practical building, and a symbol of what it will stand for. The WORLD TRADE CENTER. The center of trade for all the world, based in New York City.

It will be beautiful, magnificent, and a powerful symbol of our recovery.

We must mourn, we must avenge, somehow, and we must remember. But most of all, we must go on, and recover, or else we have let them win.

posted September 13, 2001 03:20 PM            

If you need the offices, build down. Go underground. For God's sake, don't wave another red flag under the bull's nose.

Terrorism is about symbolism and messages. To play those games by refusing to appear fazed or wounded is (or by making great rhetorical speeches) is to further the effects of their attack.

posted September 14, 2001 01:21 AM            

I think it's appropriate to rebuild on the site of the WTC. If you're not going to rebuild skyscrapers because they're unsafe, then you should really demolish every single skyscraper building in the world.

posted September 14, 2001 01:41 AM            

However, underground 'buildings' will be dark, damp, dank and claustrophobic, and they'll be much easier to attack. All you need is a load of carbon monoxide and every person inside is dead.

posted September 14, 2001 10:10 AM            

But I don't want the icon back. Just the buildings.

posted September 14, 2001 03:38 PM            

This is New York, the Greatest City in the World. NYC needs its skyline-dominating buildings. New york is an awe-inspiring city. Its buildings are a major part of that. They're something that define NYC as a great city in the eyes of the world. (Or my eyes at least) When you think of new York, you think of its Skyline.
Great cities have unique things about them that make them famous, and give them a special image in the eyes of the world.

New York without incredibly large skyscrapers is London without its history and famous buildings. It is Florence or Paris without museums and cathedrals. Venice without canals. Jerusalem without its temples and mosques. Sydney without its harbour. Washington DC without monuments. I'm sure there are a dozen other examples that escape me... but the point I'm trying to make is that New York is defined by its awe-inspiring hugeness, and it would seem like admitting defeat not to build something massive in its place.

In my humble opinion, New York needs to rebuild, build something that they can be proud of, and something that the world can be awed by. It just wouldn't be New York without it.

...But I'm Australian, what do I know about huge cities or terrorism or national icons...

posted September 14, 2001 07:20 PM            

They don't build 'em like they used to.

If the WTC had been of modern structual design, most architects agree that it probably would have fallen sooner. Because of its design it fell quickly once it started, but it stayed up for an awfully long time, compared to what other buildings would have done.

posted September 15, 2001 09:31 AM            

I also found out yesterday when I went back to work that one of the employees at Compaq was on one of the planes that hit the towers .. flight 11 I think it was.

Anyway, I'm not from New York, but I do hope they get rebuilt.

posted September 15, 2001 09:45 AM            

It's in the heart of the financial district. Unless the US buys the lease out from the guy who currently has it, we're going to see newer buildings. Hopefully they'll be even bigger.

posted September 15, 2001 10:28 AM         

quote:

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Terrorism is about symbolism and messages. To play those games by refusing to appear fazed or wounded is (or by making great rhetorical speeches) is to further the effects of their attack

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To REFUSE to appear fazed or wounded is letting the terrorists win?

To APPEAR fazed or wounded is letting the terrorists win?

posted September 15, 2001 12:03 PM            

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Revenge is a dish best served at room temperature with a side of onion rings.

posted September 15, 2001 02:21 PM            

I'm absolutely hysterical.

Arwon> All I can do is inform you that I'm virtually just gaping at you with my chin on the ground. It's like "I want an even MORE lavisk kick-me sign! And maybe I won't wear pants anymore..."

Is being proud so important right now? I understand that the natural (nay, cultural) psyche is sorely wounded, but we're talking about safety here... aren't we? Mustn't we?

DBB> And here it comes out that I WAS presumptuous to assume that you'd lost no-one, as I have. I'm sorry.

Eggy> Why do you want to show that you're a strong nation? The very fact that those towers made you feel like a strong nation is clearly why they were targeted. From a defensive perspective, towers like that PREVENT you from being a strong nation.

I mean sure, you all forge on like champions... but don't invite disaster!

spam> In a word, YES. Why should you attempt to fudge? Everyone in the world knows you're fazed and wounded. Thousands of you have been killed and terrible holes in your security have been exposed. You can't make that go away with a determined smile and a set jaw. If you have weaknesses, you can't pretend they don't exist. That way those seeking to exploit them will know about them - and you won't know to defend them.

posted September 15, 2001 08:52 PM            

I'm gonna take a stab at it.

Suppose someone decided that your music was evil, for some reason. And that they were going to break into your place and smash your equipment and every copy of every recording you'd ever made.
Would you say "gosh, I better not make any more music, 'cause it would just provoke them to come back and do it again"?

Would your answer be different if they'd killed people who had your music? Would it be different if they'd killed people who happened to be standing near the spot where you kept your music? Would it be different if they'd bombed the record store that was selling your music, and everybody there got killed?
Would it be different if you weren't even entirely sure what you'd done to provoke them, because whoever did it wasn't making any announcements about why they'd done it?
I love this city. By that I don't mean merely that I enjoy living here. I mean that I care deeply about the place. It's not the same kind of love as one can have for a person (or a group of people), but it is a real and abiding love ... and it is not limited to the inhabitants of the city, but extends to the atmosphere, the surroundings, and, yes, the architecture.
I loved the Towers. And I want them back. And I don't think I'm alone.
We can't rebuild the people we lost. We can rebuild the buildings. And I see no reason why we should not.

More about the nature of provocation as soon as I find the right thread. (I've been doing some thinking.)

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-=> Toon

"Toon, it's okay -- just think of the config.sys file as bizarre post-modern poetry."
-Rob Wynne on #filkhaven

Edited 'cause I found it.

[This message has been edited by Toon (edited September 15, 2001).]

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posted September 16, 2001 02:11 AM            

... San Francisco without the Transamerica Pyramid

... Tulsa without the World's Largest Praying Hands (now, if they were part of the skyline, that'd be something!)

{edited because I didn't think this actually got posted ... because my computer crashed, but hey, it's here! and it had a misspelled word}

[This message has been edited by Y2Karen (edited September 25, 2001).]

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posted September 17, 2001 11:39 PM            

Then tonight, I finally had the courage to look at the skyline again with my own eyes, not on the TV or in a newspaper clipping. I rode across the 59th street bridge at 11:45 pm, and let my eyes follow the buildings as I had always done, picking out the MetLife (formerly Pan Am) building, the UN building, and the Chrysler Building then the Empire State Building....

Then nothing. Sky. Smoke, a little still, in fact the wind shifted again tonight and you could smell this electrical smell that New Yorkers have learned to recognize.

I've been trying to explain to people how much love, yes LOVE I feel for this city and its concrete and steel...as much as Bombadil loves his mountains, I love these buildings and the skyline and the warehouses and water towers and the bridges and the Silvercup sign and the Park....

Seeing those towers fall, was like someone reaching in and ripping a piece of my heart out, my brain could not conceive of the PEOPLE and the LIFE inside at that moment, but I could feel my bowels grow cold as I watched the inconceivable: those towers falling down...

And now, I'm feeling more that yes, life has to return to this city. I don't think you can rebuild as tall as those towers, maybe you can, I don't know. But looking at that skyline now reduced me again to sobs as I took the damn elevator up to work tonight. Just as a mere symbol of a city, besides all the lives that have been destroyed, all the businesses that have no where to go, I mean does anyone really GET how HUGE that area is??

Even aside from the unspeakable loss of life, there are people whose entire livelihoods are now gone. Small business line the side streets, there was a HUGE concourse underneath the WFC and the WTC with stores and restaurants and service shops and banks, where do all those people go now, whose lives were blessedly saved but now have no way to make a living?

I see now that while there must be memorials, and statues, and plaques, and fountains....there must also be concrete and steel again.

To me, this city breathes and its heart beats. It is my hometown. Before a week ago, never did I look at the skyline and not feel a spark of joy and love and excitement at the wonder and beauty of the city. I was so jazzed when I realized I'd be able to look at the ENTIRE skyline everyday, because the train I took into the city went above ground and rode along the 59th Street Bridge before heading under the East River.

For now and for a long time to come, seeing the space where the WFC and the WTC were will mean that there are thousands of people dead, or dying, right there, and thousands more working in the middle of Ground Zero. But I hope, I really do, that someday we can look and see a new skyline, that will represent the courage and unity and bravery and hope of the city and the country that helped rebuild it.

posted September 18, 2001 12:40 PM            

I do not know the words to the song I keep seeing everyone singing.

Here are the lyrics:

"God Bless America"

posted September 19, 2001 01:12 PM            

Fine. Break our toys. Kill our citizens. We'll rebuild. Stronger and better than before. Want to tear down our symbols? Guess what? They'll come back, more potent than before.

Ironically, the reasons that their attack didn't dissuade us are the reasons a counter attack won't dissuade them.

You can't kill an idea, a cause, with violence. Only with a better idea.

As for the towers: HAd it not been for the fire, the first one at least would have stayed up. The fire weakened the steel. There's been some rather exciting advances in ceramics and chemistry for better heat-resistant materials to coat structural members with.

The fact that they took the impact and stood was a tribute to American engineering. When we rebuilt them they'll be able to take the heat too.

But something should be kept in mind: All buildings, eventually, will fall. Whether through the actions of a demolition company, the forces of nature, or an accident or act of violence, they'll come down. Some thought should be given to that when the area is rebuilt.

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Lisa! In this house we obey the Laws of Thermodynamics!