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Author
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Topic: D'oh
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Jesse Dangerously
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 10:17 AM
  
Knifey> Properly, that should have said "irregardlessLY, there's still no excuse...". ^_^Also, I think you're failing to recognize that "inflamed" as it refers to swelling and irritation of body parts is a METAPHOR. It is used illustratively in that context to express that it's like your body part is on fire. It's a very very firmly institutionalized metaphor, but that's what it is. What is your proposed alternative to "inflammable" in the context of things having the potential to catch fire? "Onfirable"? Well, "flammable", I guess... but that's pretty bad, buddy. ^_^ Spiff> So where's the cutoff point, Spiff? It's not like English was designed as a complete boxed-set, or a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle all ready to go. It is a bastard conglomeration slash corruption of many languages... heck, ALL the other languages... it's not like that's going to stop just because books are static. Basically, you want the way YOU to talk to be right, so YOU don't have to accept anything different from what YOU already think. That's pretty bad, buddy. ^_^ God did not give Moses an English dictionary on two stone tablets. There is no ultimate ultimate original proper meaning for any part of this language. Don't kid yourself. ^_^ p.s. "Devolving" isn't a proper english word. I imagine it was coined in a Ninja Turtles comic. Set THAT in italics. ^_^ IP: Logged |
nedthemumbler
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 12:40 PM
Spiff: "I think I'd just like to know what words are supposed mean."Words get their meanings from what people use them to mean. That's how it all started. That's how babies learn the language. They hear the same string of sounds used in reference to the same object over and over and eventually put it together. Words are supposed to mean what the user of the words intends them to mean, and he shows this meaning by context (I know it sounds circular to say that words get their meanings from context, i.e. all the other words, but that's indeed how it works). A dictionary definition assigned to a particular word is like an average of all the slightly different contexts that word is used in. If you were to try to define a word in the absence of any context, why, that would be like trying to maintain that a particle has definable properties in a complete vacuum, which is piffle (to rip off a phrase of Jesse's). But I digress. Language did not come from dictionaries. Dictionaries are an attempt to document language (which does just fine without them, thank you), and somewhere along the way people got the mistaken impression that dictionaries define language. I think the French Acadamie du Language (or whatever it's called) that compiled dictionaries and instituted themselves as the authority on the French language is partly responsible for this idea. The idea of "proper" language seems to me a bit silly because it all started out as grunts and gestures anyhow, so why do we think we're so much above that now? The purpose of language is to communicate; if you've communicated your idea, you're using language properly no matter how bad your grammar is. Mmmmm, ranty. ------------------
My other car has a bumper sticker just like this one. IP: Logged |
nedthemumbler
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 12:41 PM
D'oh! I double posted.[This message has been edited by nedthemumbler (edited June 19, 2001).] IP: Logged |
nebulous menace
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 01:36 PM
ARE WE NOT MEN?
WE ARE DEVO!
ARE WE NOT MEN?
D E V O!
ARE WE NOT MEN?
WE ARE DEVO!
ARE WE NOT MEN?
D E V O!
*repeat for 22 minutes, or until audience leaves*Inflammable came first; flammable was invented to remove the alleged ambiguity, so people wouldn't [one assumes] idly flick lit matches at an open drum labeled "INFLAMMABLE." (Note: if you do this at a drum of diesel fuel, they will go out. I'm told. ) Flammable: Better word? Or dumbing down of the language? My personal favorite story of the "dumbing down" of the language is the origin for "O.K."- Oll Korrect. That's from the 1830's. IP: Logged |
Earl Junior
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 02:34 PM
Whoever told you that, Neb, is correct. To a point. The same thing is true for gasoline, but not Coleman Fuel (aka white gas, lantern fuel). Gasoline and diesel vapors are combustible, so I don't reccomend tetsing this out at your local gas station.Gas and diesel don't really become combustible until mixed with air. The job of the carb or injection system in your car is to mix the fuel with air. Diesel is a gel-like plasma in its resting state, and has a flash point approximately 50 times higher than gasoline. And this ends another session of things I learned while young so you don't have to.
[This message has been edited by Earl Junior (edited June 19, 2001).] IP: Logged |
Fast Learner
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 02:38 PM
If I recall correctly, diesel also ignites much more readily when it is compressed with air, not just mixed with it, making its fumes less flammable (inflammable) than those of gasoline.Whereas jet fuel is super flammable (super inflammable), and doesn't take any appreciable air to ignite. Like rocket fuel, it's got plenty o' air mixed in with it, so the liquid (or solid) forms ignite quite nicely. IP: Logged |
nedthemumbler
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 03:08 PM
I hate to interrupt your musings about the properties of various fuels, but I'm gonna blab on about language. I don't think it makes sense to say that replacing "inflammable" with "flammable" is a dumbing down of the language. There's a legitimate possibility of confusion there, because "in-" so often means "not", and I would think it's best to be as crystal clear as possible when people're hanging around barrels of explosive fuel. Screw etymology; the much more important concern is that you don't want someone to mistake something that's flammable for something that's non-inflammable when he's deciding where to flick his cigarette butt.Edited cuz but=/=butt. ------------------
My other car has a bumper sticker just like this one. [This message has been edited by nedthemumbler (edited June 19, 2001).] IP: Logged |
McDuff
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 03:29 PM
To the best of my knowledge, D'oheth was used in a Halloween special set in Salem at the time of the witch hunts. Homer was dressed as a puritan when he used it. So now you know.I think that, in theory, the term "unflammable" doesn't exist because there is, technically, nothing which will not set on fire eventually. OK, rocket fuel will burn if you look at it, but if you heat up say, rocks, hot enough, then you get fire and burning and suchlike. So there is no such thing as unflammable, just varying degrees of inflammableness. If you are outside near some mysterious barrels smoking a cigarette, and you flick the still burning cigarette end towards the barrels, then you really, really need to get blown up for the good of humanity. ------------------
"America may have the edge on us when it comes to secret air bases in the middle of deserts, but if wierd shit is your Trust House Forté, then it's England every time." - Robert Rankin
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Fast Learner
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 03:50 PM
Hmm. I don't think everything is flammable because (a) the definition of flammable is "capable of being easily ignited and of burning quickly," so the "easily" and "quickly" parts don't apply to all kinds of stuff, and because catching on fire is a particular kind chemical reaction that not all materials are subject to. They may melt, they may vaporize, they may liquify, they may do all kinds of things, but burning isn't necessarily one of them.Oh, and to be on topic, using "on-line" or "on line" really irritates me. Please, it's now "online," and it's a word, so get used to it. IP: Logged |
Mara
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 06:42 PM
quote:
The dictionary is a reflection of popular usage. Language shapes the dictionary, not the other way around.
Just for your personal edification, I'd like to add that I have it on good authority that the Websters 2nd defines the language while the Websters 3rd documents it. No clue on the OED.------------------
"How would you react if I told you I'm not from Guildford after all, but from a small planet somewhere in the vicinity of Betelguise?"
"Why? Is that the sort of thing you think you're likely to say?" - The Hitchhiker's Guide IP: Logged |
Cowman
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 08:16 PM
I don't mind "D'oh" in the dictionary. I do, however, mind "gangta" in there (which it will be, along with "D'oh").IP: Logged |
Bennyboy
Self-Made User
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posted June 19, 2001 09:16 PM
If anyone still cares about the engine things... Disel engines run only by compressing the fuel/air mixture until it explodes. No spark involved. Which made a nifty new word in and of itself, diseling. The act of preignition, what fun!------------------
We don't need no education...
Are you kidding me?!?! Look at that grammar!!! IP: Logged |
Wondrous Fnordia
Self-Made User
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posted June 20, 2001 09:20 AM
quote:
So if people use the word "D'oh", then it should be in the dictionary, for the edification of those who hear it but don't know what it means.
-Acsumama
I don't know what d'oh means...
D'OH! IP: Logged |
nedthemumbler
Self-Made User
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posted June 20, 2001 03:38 PM
Speaking of online, I hate it when people overuse that word, or use it in dumb situations. I've no problem with "getting online" in reference to the internet, or with bringing something like a power plant "online." However, I was in a meeting a while back, and this guy kept talking about bringing a particular line of discussion online, or taking it offline. Online?? What line? I didn't know we carried on conversations over electrical wires! Well alright, I'm being too literal (literally!), but it was still obnoxious IMASRO.------------------
My other car has a bumper sticker just like this one. IP: Logged |
Jesse Dangerously
Self-Made User
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posted June 21, 2001 11:56 AM
Neb> Often, rounds of Jocko Homo that lasted longer than twenty minutes would result in fistfights between Devo and their audience. Far out. ^_^McD> Unflammable wouldn't mean that a thing couldn't catch fire, it would mean that a thing's fire could be extinguished. I think that you mean "Nonflammable", and as has been said, many things react to extreme heat in a manner other than combustion. Cowman> Why!? "Gangsta" has a very distinct and widespread connotation! I think the definition should be the lyrics of the Shyne song "That's Gangsta" ^_^ ned> You're just being inflammable. The guy at your meeting was using a different, yet homonymous, metaphor. "On line" like a train, which is the same root as the "on line" that computers, telephones and other communications uses derive from. Tough guy. ^_^ IP: Logged |
Knifey-Spooney
Self-Made User
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posted June 21, 2001 05:12 PM
Wow. After reading this post, I decided I no longer care whether something is described as "flammable", "inflammable", or "onfireable". I think whoever said that if you do light a match next to a gas tank, then you need to be wiped out for the good of humanity was indeed correct. I'm going to leave online and go offline now, where I shall download my new game onto my computer. Sound good?[This message has been edited by Knifey-Spooney (edited June 21, 2001).] IP: Logged |
Jesse Dangerously
Self-Made User
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posted June 22, 2001 09:13 AM
YES! Passion-induced apathy! Brilliant!IP: Logged |
Knifey-Spooney
Self-Made User
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posted June 22, 2001 10:19 AM
Is that sarcasm or sincerity I smell?IP: Logged |
Earl Junior
Self-Made User
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posted June 22, 2001 11:01 AM
*SNIFF**SNIFF* Smells like teen spirit.IP: Logged |
Y2Karen
Cereal Subunit
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posted June 22, 2001 05:44 PM
Cowman: You mean "gangsta," right? I also think it (and things like it that are in wide enough use) belongs in the dictionary. Why not? Actually, we had it in our style guide at work ... also, in g-funk, the g is not capitalized because it stands for gangsta. A writer on our staff consistently spelled it "gansta," which is dumb, and we could always point to the style guide for argument's sake. I'm not sure where to draw the line. If I had my way, there'd be separate dictionaries for all kinds of things — from things relating to air travel to things relating to music.McDuff: That witch hunt Halloween story belongethed to the Worst Episode Ever ... unless that was the same one with the killer dolphins. That part was good. ------lookee at my new sig------ YES! Passion-induced apathy! Brilliant! —Jesse Dangerously [This message has been edited by Y2Karen (edited June 22, 2001).] IP: Logged | |
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